The rise of Christian nationalism was traced from Trump to the Supreme Court
Seven Mountain Mandate: An extreme group of Christian nationalists supported by the New Apostolic Reformation and the Church of Christ of Latter-day Saints
Jones said about two decades ago, ideas about the need for dominion over American society were mostly found in the charismatic Pentecostal edges of white evangelicalism. Today, white evangelical Protestants are the most supportive of Christian nationalist views, though those views are also popular among Hispanic Protestants and some followers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to the survey.
A set of religious beliefs that used to be part of the fringe of Christianity in the United States were mapped by the nonprofit’s latest research.
Robert P. Jones said that the Republican Party has an outsized megaphone because they’re about a third of it.
Other examples of the movement’s ties to power include Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and Tom Parker, the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, who recently ruled frozen embryos have the same legal protections as people.
GROSS: An extreme group of Christian nationalists is the New Apostolic Reformation, and they advocate the Seven Mountain Mandate, which is that Christian nationalists or Christians should lead government, family, religion, business, education, media, arts and entertainment, and that they – all of these sectors should reflect the kingdom of God. I mentioned all seven of them. So what does that mean to reflect the kingdom of God in family, religion, business, education, media, arts and entertainment, and the government?
GROSS: What are the connections between Christian nationalists and Trump, besides the fact that many of them support him?
Tracing the Rise of Christian Nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court: An Introduction to the Catholic Church on Sundays and Sundays
“From that worldview, there really aren’t political opponents. Existential enemies are what there are. Jones thinks that is poison to the fabric of democracy in the country.
How did you leave the church? I am sure you were inspired to challenge the views that you have held for a long time because you studied theology at Oxford. What were you exposed to while studying theology at Oxford?
ONISHI: Politics of the 1960s influenced my church. I was born in Orange County, Calif. I’m a mixed race person, but the church was mostly white. And it was not a church where you went to hear the sermon on Sundays and heard all about which politicians were for God and which were against. It was more of a place where you were subliminally taught that God wanted the country to go and that it had fallen away from him during the 1960s and the sexual revolution.
I was shaking when I went to vote in the election and I knew that Kerry was the better choice. I was unsure if I could live with the idea of having the murder of millions of children on my head and on my heart. And I remember thinking, I don’t know what to do here. And when I exited that voting booth, that was a moment I determined to find a theology and an ethic that did more justice to the most pressing questions we have, whether that’s abortion and reproductive rights, whether that’s the death penalty, whether that’s war. And so by the end of my time in ministry, I was doubting my entire faith. And so when I went off to Oxford 6,000 miles from home, it only gave me more freedom to really figure out what I believed. And it eventually led me out of the movement.
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
The Grossest. Catching the Rise of Christians: Tracing the rise of Christianity to the Ala. supreme court and back again
It is called Grossest. There is one more question. Since 2018, you’ve been co-host of the podcast “Straight White American Jesus.” That is a title that is bound to intrigue some people, confuse some people and make some people really angry. Tell us about the title and reactions you’ve got to it.
ONISHI: …Because it just gives the wrong – we have not sold a lot of T-shirts as part of the podcast. Here’s the goal behind the name. My co-host Dan Miller and I wanted to help others understand why, when so many people in our country imagine Jesus, they don’t think of a first-century man who, by today’s standards, would be considered someone who was an immigrant and a person of color in many ways in the United States. But instead they see a projection of Jesus who’s a vehemently straight, patriarchal, white American who is native-born, gun-toting and, willing to articulate very conservative political policies down the line. Why do so many Americans think of Jesus as a straight, white, American tough guy rather than as a revolutionary prophet who preached love and compassion? We wanted to help folks answer that question. That is what the show was called.
Gross. Well, let’s take another break here, and then we’ll talk some more. If you’re just joining us, my guest is Brad Onishi, author of the book “Preparing For War: The Extremist History Of White Christian Nationalism – And What Comes Next.” After a break, we’ll go over the impact of Christian nationalism on American democracy. Terry Gross is on FRESH AIR.
Danny Miller is the executive producer of FRESH AIR. Our senior producer today is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Interviews and reviews are edited and produced by a number of people. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Thea directed the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I’m Terry Gross.
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
The United Church of Christ (Universal Presbyterian Church) for the Angsty Teens of the Early 1900s and the Realisation that Jesus Christ was Right
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But I also was completely enveloped by this idea of a Christian nation, and I really did believe that if, on a Sunday morning, I passed people on the way to church or out taking a jog or riding their bike or walking the dog rather than going to church – that it was a sign that our country had fallen away from its original founding and purpose.
ONISHI: I became a minister at 18 and a full time minister at 20. And I preached things that are – you know, were related to conservative Christianity, that unless you accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, you would burn in hell forever. I was very motivated to proselytize to anyone who would listen. When I was in high school, I would go around my high school at lunchtime and ask various folks if they knew about the gospel of Jesus. Oftentimes on a Friday night, you might catch me at the local movie theater with a friend, and we would ask kids our age if they were willing to repent and ask God for forgiveness. I taught the kids in my youth group that unless we, you know, waited until marriage for sex – that we would be under God’s wrath.
It was the kind of place where, without realizing it right away, you converted to a certain vision of the gospel, but also a certain vision of America, as it went with it. Years ago I began to understand that I was worshiping Him at the cross when I devoted myself to Jesus there. But I was also always worshiping Him at a cross that was accompanied by an American flag, that our Christianity and our Americanism always went hand in hand. That’s true for a lot of people in the country.
Onishi. You know, I was a kind of angsty teenager who found in church two things. I found the answer to the questions about the meaning of life in church, which was that if I confessed my sins to God I would be forgiven and have eternal life. I found answers to questions about what happens after you die and why the Earth was created in the first place, and they were very quick and easy answers. It was something that satisfied my soul immediately when I heard that they didn’t require a long division. I also found people in the community. I found a group of people who welcomed me and kind of became my second home. That was meaningful to me as well as a lot of people, no matter what age they are. And it meant that I was willing to convert and devote my life to that church in very extreme ways.
So let’s talk about your experiences as a Christian nationalist when you were a teenager. It was a great excuse to spend time with your girlfriend on a weekday after you first went to church if you were at a Christian nationalist church. But then you got really caught up in the teachings of the church. What teachings did you find interesting at that time?
ONISHI: Well, I think that Wagner’s views 10 years ago might have seemed jarring to the average American. Certainly, 20 or 25 years ago, they would have been even more fringe. When we were growing up next to the kind of charismatic churches that Wagner and the New Apostolic Reformation inspire, we pondered a lot about demons and demon affliction. We took a look at the ways spiritual warfare played on individuals. It is evident that the rhetoric surrounding the right and the government is about spiritual warfare and demonization of those who are not on the right side.
GROSS: OK. That was C. Peter Wagner recorded on FRESH AIR in 2011. And he, again, is the founder of the New Apostolic Reformation, an extremist but growing rapidly group of Christian nationalists. Brad, your opinion on demons and the need to rid people of them?
He said that it wasWAGNER: Sometimes they know about it. Sometimes the demon has identified itself to the person. It is possible to tell by the manifestations of unhuman behavior. Sometimes skilled deliverance ministers can tell you what’s happening. My wife has a questionnaire that people fill out before she ministers to them. So she asks the kind of questions that a medical doctor would ask to find out to diagnose an illness. Diagnostic work is actually done on people to find out what their demons are.
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court: What did you learn from the New Apostolic Reformation?
I would like to know more about the founder of the New Apostolic Reformation, C. Peter Wagner. This is the group that’s at the very fringe of Christian nationalism, like perhaps one of the most extreme groups. Some of the beliefs have been codified by that. Is that fair to say?
ONISHI: It is. And I think they’re very much leading the charge on the kinds of visions for America that Christian nationalists are putting forth today.
A talk show host discusses a topic The word demon figures prominently into the New Apostolic Reformation. There are demons in your religious views. You and other New Apostolic Reformation people have stated that demons are functioning in America and other countries around the world. So do you believe that there are actually like living demons, like Satan’s representatives who are functioning in America now?
C PETER WAGNER: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, in Oklahoma City, there’s a annual meeting of a professional society called the International Society of Deliverance Ministers, which my wife and I founded many years ago. A large number of Christian ministers are in this society. They have professional expertise in casting demons out of people and they happen to meet right now. My wife is one of them. She’s written a whole book called “How To Cast Out Demons.” Sometimes, I might do that, but most of the time I don’t. But that’s been her ministry. For a long time, I’ve been very close to that. We’ve been married for 60 years.
WAGNER: We don’t like the word – to use the word possessed because that means they don’t have any power of their own. A technical term used to describe a situation is afflicted or demonized. The arts, the media, and the Christian church all have people who are affected by demons, not only in politics but also in religion and the Christian church. And…
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
How the American Revolution began: John Locke’s Flag as a Signal for Christian Revolution and the Appeal to Heaven Flag in the House Speaker’s Office
ONISHI: It is. The American Revolution was where that flag came from. George Washington was inspired by John Locke. I’ve argued before that for the last ten years, that flag has served as a signal for Christian revolution, an upending of democracy as it stands today. So when I see that flag in the crowds at J6, I’m not thinking, oh, there’s somebody influenced by the enlightenment ideals of John Locke. I’m pretty sure that’s someone who has followed Dutch Sheets’ call to come and help in the spiritual warfare that’s taking place and who’s also following Donald Trump’s call to stand up for God’s people.
You could call it grOSS: I am going to ask you to intercede and tell you that the flag that is hung outside of the house speaker’s office is the Appeal to Heaven flag.
ONISHI: As the riot unfolded, many scholars of religion, like myself, gathered on Twitter and began using a hashtag, #CapitolSiegeReligion, in order to collect symbols and pictures and videos from the insurrection that showed the religious dimensions of what was happening. Almost immediately, you could see that there were many Christian flags in the crowd. You saw many flags and signs that says, you know, Trump is my president, Jesus is my savior. But if you look deeper, you saw other things.
OnISHI: It really seems that way. It seems like this is a role he believes he can bring to the table, and that he’s not shying away from it. I think it shows that we’ve arrived in American politics that is quite different from a decade ago. Those who disagree on policy are no longer being talked about. We’re talking about those who’ve been elected by God, like Trump, to destroy those who are in the service of Satan, like Joe Biden or anyone else on the other side. Trump leans into the idea that American politics is more about God and Satan than it is about someone being the best person for the job. It’s quite a change from a decade ago.
There are more concrete connections now. We can think of officials who want to use Christian nationalism to bolster Trump’s second term, according to a report last week. The official leading that charge is Russ Vought. Well, Russ Vought was part of the Trump administration, along with William Wolfe, one of the most notorious Christian nationalists on social media, a former intelligence officer. So, Trump is willing not only to espouse Christian nationalist ideas to champion Christian nationalist causes, but he’s willing to bring in Christian nationalists to his administration in ways that continue to convince this group of Americans that he is their man.
It’s Gross I’m pretty sure you’ve seen it, but Trump just posted a video on his social media platform that’s called God Made Trump. And I just want to – the sound quality on it isn’t very good, so I’m not going to play the audio, but I will quote some of what is said in it. So the narrator says, God looked down on his planned paradise and said, I need a caretaker. God gave us Trump. God had to have somebody willing to go into the den of vipers, call out the fake news for their tongues as sharp as serpents. The poison of vipers is on their lips, so God made Trump. God said, I need somebody to be strong and courageous, who will not be afraid or terrified of the wolves when they attack, a man who cares for the flock, a shepherd to mankind who will never leave or forsake them. Do you have any knowledge about this video?
OnISHI: It shows that Trump is willing to allow those leaders to pray for him, and that he is showing to anyone who will see the picture and who will notice that he wants the anointing of those evangelical leaders. It also shows that those leaders have direct access to him, that if you are someone who follows or takes guidance from any of those ministers, any of those apostles or prophets or pastors, then you are somebody who has direct access to Trump by way of them.
The picture bolsters Trump’s sense of religiosity to the Christian nationalist segments of our country. But it also demonstrates something that evangelicals and charismatics have wanted since they got behind Reagan six decades ago, and that is direct access and influence over the United States government. If the goal of colonization is to colonize Earth for God, what more could you do to influence the United States?
There is a picture of Trump in the White House and a group of evangelical leaders are laying on each other. What does that photo signify?
ONISHI: There’s a lot of connections. We saw in the first Trump term that he was going to appoint justices who were from the Federalist Society to the Supreme Court and Leonard Leo, a notorious Christian nationalist, was going to dictate the direction of the society. He came through on those picks, and he was willing to do as they wished. And that convinced many in those camps that he was trustworthy as a president and as a candidate.
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
Donald Trump’s life isn’t a model of evangelicals but a realization of a Christian-Christianity-based vision
There is a show called Gross News. When Trump says we should fight like hell and if we don’t, we are not going to have a country anymore, that’s about it, right?
You don’t just need somebody who’s going to go to church on Sunday and talk a good talk. You need somebody who will destroy in order to rebuild. So Donald Trump, yeah, doesn’t go to church a lot. Donald Trump, been married a couple times. But you know what he promises in ways that no one in our lifetimes has? He promises to punish those who have caused this country to go the wrong way. And so eight years later, we have a base that is more rabid to make him their barbarian king than ever before.
Despite what Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan, it felt like the country was still not done and there was still something to be said about it. It was getting more diverse, racially and ethnically. And then all of a sudden, it was Barack Obama. Barack Obama was made in a lab to scare white Christian nationalists. So Barack Obama is president, and then we get Obergefell, and gay marriage is legalized.
Ronald Reagan was the person who tried to curry favor with evangelicals, Catholics and the Moral Majority in the election against Jimmy Carter. Ronald Reagan delivered on some of those promises, but he ended up frustrating some of his religious right supporters. He didn’t leave everything in the way. Well, we arrived a decade or so later to George W. Bush. George W. Bush had a faith in Jesus Christ that saved him. He did a lot to promote the interests of conservative Christians in the country.
People often wonder, why do so many evangelicals support Donald Trump when his lifestyle is hardly a model of Christian values? His business practices, hardly, you know, a model of Christian values. The New Apostolic Reformation, an extreme group of Christian nationalists, sees Trump as the anointed person to help create a Christian state. Can you begin to explain that?
To say that there is a goal to have people in the government’s machine that will work to colonize the government for God to return it to glory is to say there is a very narrow and hardcore vision for a Christian society. The decision in Alabama is one that we can see that way. We see that in other proposed policies, whether that is overturning Obergefell and the Supreme Court’s decision on marriage equality, whether that is a national abortion ban and so on and so forth. I think it’s happening right in front of our eyes in government.
ONISHI: The Heritage Foundation is a conservative organization. We have other sponsors if we focus on the sponsors. We have an educational institution named Hillsdale College. We have Liberty University. We have the Claremont Institute. We have TP USA, many Christian nationalist universities or organizations. The goal when it comes to government is to get everybody to contribute at every level, whether that be national politics, the White House, the United States Senate, the United States House or all the way down to the hyperlocal.
This is airing on a different channel. I’m Terry Gross. Christian nationalism, which includes the extreme version of the New Apostolic Reformation, has become influential in American government and parts of the judiciary. The NAR supports Christian control over government, religion, business, education, arts and entertainment, and the media. Some of its opponents are afflicted by demons, so they need to be cured through an exorcist. The NAR has aligned itself with Donald Trump and efforts to overturn the election. Mike Johnson, the speaker of the House, has said he’s been profoundly influenced by Dan Cummins, a Christian nationalist activist. A flag associated with the NAR hangs outside Johnson’s office.
An Alabama Supreme Court decision made it illegal to destroy frozen fertilized embryos used in infertility treatments because they are people. The chief justice of the court said in a concurring opinion that God’s glory is not lost on human beings even before birth. Brad Onishi studies Christian nationalism. He used to be part of that movement. He left after studying theology at Oxford University. He’s the author of the book “Preparing For War: The Extremist History Of White Christian Nationalism – And What Comes Next.” “Straight White American Jesus” is a Christian nationalism analysis and reporting show he co-hosted. He teaches at the University of California, San Francisco.
BRAD ONISHI: I think it has. Christian nationalism is getting some attention. It’s having a moment in ways that it’s requiring those who adhere to its principles and ideologies to respond to it. Folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert and others have talked about the ways that Christian nationalism not only informs their understanding of politics, but how they identify explicitly as Christian nationalists. Christian nationalism is something many people are talking about in American politics.
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
Tracing the Rise of Christianity from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court: Tom Parker in the United States as a Christian Nation
There is a show called Gross. And just as a sidebar here, he was mentored by a former Alabama Chief Justice, Roy Moore, who was famous for having a marble replica of the 10 Commandments in his courthouse. The Supreme Court declared that unconstitutional. He refused to take it down, and so he was ousted from the Supreme Court as a result.
ONISHI: You mentioned that Roy Moore was famous for the 10 Commandments controversy, but his nephew is actually the one who was notorious for that. Roy Moore was also notorious for his Senate run a couple of years ago, when he faced off against Doug Jones in Alabama. Those of us who don’t pay much attention to Alabama politics, or at least Roy Moore’s politics, may be surprised to know that TomParker is a continuation of Roy Moore’s politics, and he may be more savvy about his understanding of the United States as a Christian nation
Source: Tracing the rise of Christian nationalism, from Trump to the Ala. Supreme Court
Onishi: The Seven Mountains mandate as a mission to colonize the Earth for God, not a dialog with Muslims or atheist or Hindu
ONISHI: The Seven Mountains mandate says that Christian people shouldn’t try to persuade their neighbours to practice the faith because the faith of love and truth is what America is all about. The Seven Mountains Mandate is, as my colleague Matthew Taylor says, a mandate to colonize the Earth for God. The seven domains as you listed them – arts and leisure and the economy and the government, the family – are seen as mountains of conquest. The goal is not dialogue with neighbors who may be Muslim or atheist or Hindu. The goal isn’t to simply show the character of Christ by living a life that honors his glory, but rather to live a life that is in line with his teachings. The goal is to have absolute authority and power over every facet of human society.
